“Man came from Ape, so why Man is not coming now from Ape?”

Prabhupada: Man came from ape, so why man is not coming now from ape? Hm?

Harikesa: It only happened once, and that was enough to start the whole thing.

Pusta Krsna: It had to happen at least twice.

Prabhupada: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This is dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature’s way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.

Pusta Krsna: Well, actually Darwin said that there’s a missing link.

Prabhupada: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.

Pusta Krsna: Accepting?

Prabhupada: This Darwin’s theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey — why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?

Pusta Krsna: First there was very primitive man.

Prabhupada: No, primitive…

Pusta Krsna: They think that he resembles a monkey very much.

Prabhupada: So there are in Africa these men. They resemble that, what is called? That animal?

Pusta Krsna: Gorilla.

Prabhupada: Gorilla. So these men are still existing. But why from gorilla they do not come?

Pusta Krsna: They don’t come from the gorilla.

Prabhupada: Africans, I have seen, they look like gorilla. So why now from gorilla the Africans or any black man is not coming? Then the question is the black man… We have got experience. The black man come. And where from the white man came? Is there any white gorilla?

Pusta Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: No. Then white man, how did he come?

Harikesa: Well, sometimes there is a freak of nature, and the pigments that are in the skin…

Prabhupada: Simply it is for Darwin, “sometime.” To support his rascaldom, nature has to serve him “sometimes. “Just see. We have to believe. Nature’s law is the same, symmetrical. Nature is not obliged to serve Mr. Darwin, the rascal. Sometimes. He says, “sometimes.” He did, and he knew it only and nobody knew. We have to believe that. Sometimes it was done, and it was revealed to Darwin. How he came to know? Nobody could understand. Only Darwin could understand? There was no other?

Pusta Krsna: They use the same argument against us, though, that… They use the same argument against us that so few people can understand God…

Prabhupada: No. We don’t say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Iksvaku, Iksvaku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don’t say, “The God spoke to me.” Evam parampara praptam, that is quite reasonable. God said to Brahma, and the Brahma said to Narada, Narada said to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather… My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don’t say, “Darwin simply knew it.” No, we don’t say that. Evam parampara praptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.

Pusta Krsna: But how can we prove Krsna scientifically?

Prabhupada: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Krsna said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Krsna says, “Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna.” So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gita. Where is the… We have no difficulty. But you jump over: “There is link,” that “Once only from monkey came.” What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it? We cannot…

Harikesa: Well, certain changes take place. Just like when it is very hot, if you are in a hot climate all the time your blood thins.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. No, no. This is not…

Harikesa: Well, if you take that further, all of these changes that mount up to some big physical change.

Prabhupada: No change is taken. The nature is working symmetrically always. The sun is rising in the morning. That is going on for million, million, million, millions of years.

Harikesa: Gradually the change has taken place in a very scientific way, step by step.

Prabhupada: What change has taken place?

Harikesa: First the hairs fell off…

Prabhupada: Morning… In the morning the sun rises on the eastern side. That is going on. What change has taken place? This flower, seasonal flower is… Now seasonal changes — winter, summer, spring — everything is going on symmetrically. There is no change. Because it is going on symmetrically, therefore we can say that February, next February will be very nice season here. Why? Because we have got experience last February, so we are certain the same thing will happen in the next February. Therefore we can say. There is no such change. Nature’s way. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani. It is very symmetrical. Everything is going on nicely, nature’s way.

Pusta Krsna: One of the strong points of Darwin’s theory…

Prabhupada: I don’t find. Simply foolishness I accept. And rascal, foolish like you, will believe. (laughter)

Pusta Krsna: They argue that five thousand years ago they have no history, so they think that before that time…

Prabhupada: “They think.” That is their rascaldom.

Pusta Krsna: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.

Prabhupada: “They think.” That is their… We don’t “think.” We have got millions of years’ history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?

Pusta Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Krsna, who is accepted the Supreme by all the acaryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.

Harikesa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was…

Prabhupada: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.

Harikesa: No, the Bible was there… Old Testament has been there for thousands of years.

Prabhupada: Old Testament, but what is going on, Bible…

Harikesa: That Genesis, where it says the creation…

Prabhupada: That is another thing.

Harikesa: That’s just some story. Why should we believe it? There’s nothing else to believe. Why not believe this Darwin?

Prabhupada: No, but you are not believing Bible. Bible, they say that the earth is square. So nobody is believing. So one point is sufficient, that it is not perfect. One point is sufficient.

Harikesa: (laughing) It says the earth is square?

Prabhupada: Yes, they… They say it. Formerly they believed that.

Pusta Krsna: Probably does.

Harikesa: Oh, you mean flat.

Prabhupada: You’ll fall down. If you go very far, you’ll fall down. Just like a child thinks. Bible, so many have been proved not authorized. Therefore Bible is not authorized.

Harikesa: So we had this religion, and everybody was saying that this was the correct way, the official policy. So everybody knew this was nonsense. So Darwin is very scientific, so we accept the science.

Prabhupada: What is that science? He said, “By chance, once, nature came.” Is that … ? That is not science. We don’t find, nature’s way, by chance it comes. No. As soon as you talk something nonsense, your whole statement will be accepted as nonsense because you are nonsense. What is the value of your statement? This is our test. Once you say something nonsense, you are wholesale nonsense. That is our test. You cannot say, “I am sorry. It was incorrect,” no. That is not allowed. Then your whole statement is incorrect. This is our… Harikesa: Scientists are always doing that. They’re always saying that.

Prabhupada: Therefore they’re all nonsense.

Harikesa: “Last year we made a mistake. Now it’s all right.”

Prabhupada: “Now we advance.” And what is the guarantee that it is all right? You will advance again. That means you are always incorrect.

Harikesa: But people always think that it’s always getting better.

Prabhupada: Therefore they are rascals. This is called maya. They remain rascal; still, they think that they are advancing.

Harikesa: Nobody thinks about that point, nobody.

Prabhupada: If everyone is rascal, how he will think? We say mudha, all rascals.

Pusta Krsna: But when the early scientists, they were analyzing the body, they tried to find the soul. They would look for the soul in different parts of the body. They couldn’t find it with their 

microscopes.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. That is his rascaldom. He’s a rascal. But soul is there. Then find out what is the missing point of a dead man. If there is no soul, something is missing.

Harikesa: Well, actually they’ve pinned it down to a little bit of a molecule that breaks down.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. Bring that molecule.

Harikesa: They’re working on it.

Prabhupada: Huh? Again, “working on it.” You see. This is bluff. This is bluff.

Harikesa: Now they are inventing these different DNA and RNA molecules to change people by injecting them with these different things before they are born, making new people.

Prabhupada: That is not very difficult thing. If you make some vegetable, if you add more sugar it becomes sweet. If you add more salt it becomes salty. That you can do. That is not very difficult. Our question is wherefrom the life comes? That is our… So they do not give any answer to this. That is their foolishness. What is that life? They say life developed from chemical. Now do it. By chemical combination make in one egg and give it to the fomenting machine. What is that? Fomenting machine? They have got heating machine?

Harikesa: Incubator.

Prabhupada: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don’t you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.

Harikesa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer…

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman’s proposal. Do it. Ask them. 

Durban, October 14, 1975